Post one quote journal (a quote and a brief reflection on why you chose it)
Post one response to something someone else wrote. You should do one or more of these...
--make a connection to the other story or your outside reading
--politely explain why you disagree with an interpretation
--ask a question that this passage raises about globalization
--speculate on how the character described would react to your company
This should be done by Sunday, June 1 at 10 pm
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
13 comments:
"For i saw the beak of the chick i was at six years old pecking through the hard shell of my own preconceptions. Moving into an alien land. First hating, then becoming friends with aliens like my blond Indian Okie friend, Denver, and finally becoming almost an alien myself.(Candelaria,130)." From The day the Cisco Kid Shot John Wayne
So in the end, junior, or whatever the narrator's name may be, assimilates and becomes American. Growing up with this group of friends and environment leads Jr to believe that the white men are the enemy. In accepting Denver, does his fear and intimidation of Americans disappear so that he can finally accept and become American too? Maybe in establishing superiority, and sort of making peace with Denver in the end, Jr. realizes they're not so terrible after all. The enemy is scared just like him. In addition, the actor who plays John Wayne, an enemy of the Mexicans, is married to a Hispanic women himself. Jr's hatred stems from his fear and lack of understanding, but when he finally cracks the shell of his preconceptions, he accepts and became American himself.
"But whether we taunted or saluted,the distant men in Khaki uniforms went about their motions without noticing us at all" (p.g 160)- "The hammon and the Beans"
It is really intresting that the narrator refers to group of soldiers right infront of them as "distant". Earlier in the story, the seperation of the two communites is determined by a single, thin fence. Although the story doesn't give us alot of insight as to how the two cultures react twoard one another and of how accpeting they are, this one sentence explains alot. The westerns seem to isolate themselves from the surronding community in a very subtle way. They exhibit a sense of superiority to the mexicans behind the fence. One example being, shooing off Chonita and having pity on her. I think the narrator uses the word "distant", not to contridict but to instead mark the distinction between two clashing cultures. Although the communities are so close, they are really, at the same time, so far away.
"Speech! Speech! they all cried. Let Chonita make a speech! Talk in English Chonita!".
"They were grinning and nudging each other, except for Chonita's brothers and sisters who looked up at her with proud faces. She gazed out beyond us all with a grand, distant air and then she spoke: Give me the hammon and the beans!" (pg. 161)
Talking about this quote in class really got me thinking about the innocence represented in this story. When it says that the kids grinned and nudged each other while listening to her speak, it is clear to the reader that they are mocking her english. The question I asked myself was: Does it matter that the kids are ridiculing her if it truly makes Chonita happy to use her broken english? I don't think so. Chonita's and her siblings innocence is shown because they don't realize that the other kids are making fun of Chonita's "spanglish". However, it does make them proud and full of pride to hear Chonita speak, and if it truly makes them, and their sister happy, to know that the other kids are making fun of them would only crush their spirits. Superiority is shown again through the small and secret nudges and laughter coming from the large crowd directed towards Chonita. These kids think that they are better than her, and that its acceptable to be making fun of this innocent 9 year old girl. Though the fakeness of their geers are clear to the reader, if Chonita and her siblings never find out about how the other kids are really treating them, their innocence will remain intact.
In response to Yelly's comment, I completely agree. I believe that that story makes it clear to the reader that the oxymoron of being accepting of the unfamiliar is not always a negative thing. As Yelly said, both kids (thought of to be rivals) are both still young, scared, but still have a long time to figure out who they really are.
"Then I cried. And whether it was the bugle, or whether it was Chonita or what, to this day I do not know. But cry I did, and I felt much better after that" (164) [The Hammon and the Beans]
I think that this narrator is speaking of three twin pains that cause him to cry that night. The first is the loneliness of the bugle, which he also associates a bit with the figurative distance between the Americans and the Latinos. This distance is sort of bridged during the day, but at night the bugle represents the separation between the two cultures that are literally just on opposite sides of a fence. The second pain is the loss of a good friend. Even if the narrator wasn't good friends with Chonita, he knew her, and he knew her bravery and ability to be strong for her family. Her death touches him hard because Chonita is the same age as he, and their families were close. The final pain felt, I think, is almost unrecognizable in the moment. This is the tug of "unfairness." Why should a nine-year-old die? If she had been born white, would this terrible thing have happened to her? And if her stepfather is laughing moments after her death, is anyone even mourning at all? Will Chonita be remembered, or will she just vanish? These questions are almost too deep to be conquered by a child, but they are still felt, and they contribute to the tears.
In response to Yelly's comment, I both agree and disagree. I think that Junior's hatred did come from his "fear and lack of understanding." However, I have some problem with the idea of "becoming American." If we as Americans are proud of being such a melting pot, is one not American when one crosses the border? Must one forget their own heritage before becoming "an American"? It seems like people from the US in general are so upset about "real American jobs" being taken away by "illegal aliens", but those people are living here just like the "Americans" are-- doesn't that make them just as American? Or if there is a definition of American, what is it? How can Junior know what he is becoming if we, the "real Americans", don't know ourselves?
I think that Junior and Chonita are very similar in the sense that both characters are very naive. Both lack the ability to pick up on the small details that form the entire picture. Junior, in his view of the Americans, and Chonita how she thinks her friends treat her. Much of this is accounted for by their young age, but it is no wonder the Americans seem just good or (as most of them view them) just bad. The kids just don't understand. So when Junior bases his opinion off of a random movie and Chonita is peforming infront of crowds, they are not truly understanding the American culture or the environment they are in. I think this is one of the major reasons why two different cultures don't accept each other. They don't understand everything about one another, and its easy to hate what you don't know.
And Taryn you have a good point. Maybe becoming American means really understand the people that live there, sort of relating?
"'You wanna join our gang?' he asked. 'I think you'll do.'" (The Day the Cisco Kid Shot John Wayne, Pg. 119)
Although this quote may be short, it immediately brings my thoughts to an early scene in Bless Me Ultima. Both Junior and Antonio come in contact with groups of older boys which in turn accept them into their gangs. The groups consist of vaguely the same amount of kids, all boys, who seem to follow a single leader. The one thing that really stands out though is the way they prove themselves worthy of being part of the group. The two main characters fight the leader for the right to to be part of the group. In my experience I haven't run into too many fist fights between first and third graders which made these scenes, which are played as such a normal occurrence, point to a cultural difference. In Juniors case, he is living in America while still speaking Spanish and observing Mexican traditions and culture, which makes him feel singled out compared to the white majority in his school. By fighting, proving himself and making friends with people in his same situation he becomes more comfortable and confident in his own school.
Taryn, I thought you made a very very good point about the different things that made the narrator cry. I think the narrator shares the feeling of the gap between the American culture versus the Mexican with Junior from the other short story. Because the narrator in Hammon and Beans lives in Mexico he sees the separation through the literal boarder of the two countries and through the Americans living in the fort on the edge of his town, while Junior in Cisco Kid sees it more at his school when he has to leave his small town of mostly mexican decent to go to school in a large city in New Mexico, USA. There is a strong connection between the two stories and Mexicans living in America versus living in Mexico.
In regards to tayrn's comment, i also agree. I think the three reasons for narrator being upset definitley make sense. Espically so because of the quote. The narrator actually says "whether it was bugle or chonita or what". The narrator is already identifying these things to be the reason for the emotion. I think tayrn did a good job making an inferance on the "what" part, it was possibly just a mixture of everything. With this quote, we are able to see how the character reacts to certain situations and how tolerant he is the westerners. If the crest factory were to open up near his home, it would strike up the same emotion as the "bugle". Although it contradicts my points on being part of the company, i don't think some of the civilans would be able to handle all of the change around them. It would be hard for people to accept something that is so far from farmiliar.
"'Times have changed,' Papa said. 'He'll have to live in the English-speaking world.'"
This quote raise the questions about culture and language of the America and Mexico. The father believes in the prosperity of America. How much better is America than Mexico? In the United States, people probably learn Spanish as one of the main school language. In Newton South the majority of students probably take Spanish as their second language. In Mexico, people might learn English because of the economic success of the United States, but why then, do Americans not learn Chinese because China is growing as an economic country. The language learning of both these countries brings our cultures together. I think that the narrators father is trying to provide opportunities for his son by having him learn English. I think that the narrator is showing the connecting of Mexico and the United States.
In response to Annie's comment, I think that it raises the question: Which is more important protecting innocence or the truth? Or how long should innocence last? I think that Chonita and the narrator from The Day the Cisco Kid Shot John Wayne both face their innocence and growing up, but they understand different things about growing up. The narrator begins to understand acceptance of the unknown (Denver), while Chonita is forced to take care of herself and her siblings.
"And I wondered: if God only had one spot in heaven, and He had to chose between a bad catholic who spoke Spanish, and a good protestant who spoke English, which one would He let in” (The day the Cisco Kid Shot John Wayne, page 124)
I chose this quote because I thought that it was sort of an important moment for Junior (the Narrator). This is the point in the story where he “gets it.” I think that he finally understands that the whole idea of protestant Vs. Catholic is kind of ridiculous. He may not fully grasp the idea and run with it, but I thought it was important that he was even beginning to think like this.
I connected this quote to the part of the story “the hammon and the beans” where the cook gives Chonita some food. These two parts of the stories connect because they are both about people realizing that despite differences, people are all really the same. Now this is more so the case in the hammon and the beans, but in The day the Cisco Kid Shot John Wayne, this definitely still applies.
Taryn, I don’t really have any constructive criticism, but more of just a disagreement. I think that it WAS just chonita that made the narrator cry in the hammon and the beans. He may have had a lot on his mind, but in the story it was clear that he was very upset about the way the other members of his community treated his sister. Therefore, I think that it would make sense for him to cry. I think that he knew it was wrong but there was just nothing he could do to help.
My question about this passage/globalization is this. If globalization hadn’t “happened” in these communities, wouldn’t everyone be much better off? The kid from The day the Cisco Kid Shot John Wayne wouldn’t have had to deal with the whole religion idea and then wouldn’t have to worry about going to heaven. This question is one that doesn’t really have a ‘right’ answer, but feel free to throw in your two cents.
And finally, how would my character react to my company. I think that Junior would be at first afraid of the company because it is new and unfamiliar (sort of like the new white kid) but would then warm up to the idea of having a new factory and go along with it. This is only if he follows the same patterns about the way he reacts to things/people.
p.s. sorry this took so long to post, i didnt know what my password was.
Alllllly,
I think that that is the question i've been trying to get answered the whole time. In relation to Catcher in the Rye in a way, innocence and truth are the common themes and in these cases they can't coexist.
hey everyone, this is krieger. im just using gregs account for this one post because I forgot my password.
“After the soldiers were through, the cooks came out scolded chonita, and then they gave her packages with things to eat.”
This quote is important because I think that it shows that the indivual American is a good person but they have to obey the orders from above but they really do want to help. You can see this in the other story “the day the Cisco kid shot john Wayne.”
When his father says that he needs to learn English to get ahead in life he send im to a catholic school and the nun, sister marry Margaret forces him to speak English in the class. She seems like a bad person but I think she just agrees with his father. This passage is saying that the indivual American wants to help but the government has the say in what happens. I think that my charter would like the company because it will give them a chane to get ahead and try for something.
I politely disagree with taryn when she says that Chonita will not be rembered. I think that she show the courage you need to get ahead in life and the determination you need. I think she will be rembered.
"But at least zorro speaks the right language"
From The day the Cisco Kid Shot John Wayne
i this quote illustrates the importance of the language is for the kids to the reader. they are in an environment that is filled with english and this is a movie start that was like them and spoke spanish. they could relate to him. to them Zorro was a mexican, spoke spanish, and was a hero.
for what annie said about the hammon and the beans... you do bring up the point that she is being made fun of but even when she is being mad fun of there is something that doesnt make sense, that he brother who knows what is going on doesnt do anything. he could have stopped them but he says that they will just grow tiered of it and he doesnt do anything. if it was realy hurting her dont you think that he would have done something?????
Post a Comment